Wednesday, March 24, 2010

Part 7: A New Hope?


Seeing how there aren't many Star Wars references out there, I thought I'd start off with the very original title "A new hope?" that I'm sure no one's ever used before. Sure, it's a tiny theoretical speck of hope and my realistic prognosis of PSP's chances of survival remains poor. I mean, no one's ever survived the bloatware-spyware stage (if you know of a remission story, please let me know). But anyway, I was contacted by Corel a few days ago and there seems to be a desire for change in the way PSP is managed. It may have something to do with the management overhaul going down at Corel, or PSP's inevitably plunging popularity, who knows. This is part of my conversation with PSP's marketing manager, G.W. (I don't know if he wants me to reveal his name) :

=================

Hi Max, I'm G.W.

I work on the PaintShop product team at Corel. Having discovered your blog, http://improvepsp.blogspot.com/, for the first time a few days back, it is with admiration and concern that I introduce myself.

Admiration, for the impressive depth of knowledge you've demonstrated and analysis you've made over the past few years. Concern, for the deep impression that your analysis has made on me - especially the fact that you've declared it time to wrap things up for a product you've had such a long relationship with.

This is definitely not the experience that we want PSP customers to have, and clearly you think we haven't been getting it right in recent years. We don't want things to be this way, and we're working to change PSPP for the better.While we have learned a lot from your blog already, we'd really like the opportunity to speak with you sometime soon - if you are willing to spend some time with us to hear everything you want to say to us about PaintShop and to ask you a few questions about how you think we can make PSP better. Our product manager for PaintShop is out of the office right now, but if you had some time next week to chat, we'd really appreciate it. Let me know what day/time might be good for you and what time zone you are in.

Sincerely,

G.W.

=======

My reply:

Hello, G.,

I'm pleasantly surprised that my blog has reached Corel and it makes me happy that your company has contacted me personally. That said, as experienced as one single user can be, nothing can replace a direct, open contact with the community, so my main and most important suggestion would be to open a freely accessible official forum on Corel.com, where users can directly contact a representative of the programming team, or an active programmer. You will immediately notice a torrent of fresh ideas much more comprehensive than the ones I can give you.
Using PSP in my profession, I'm noticing three main problems:

- The brush engine - outdated, unsuitable for proper work with a tablet.
- The growing size and heaviness of the product, mainly due to unnecessary bundled software and background services. The core program could easily fit into less than 100 mb.
- The product is being marketed towards photographers only, but what makes a product like Adobe PhotoShop successful is its ability to manipulate (to photoshop) images and create stunning digital paintings. My suggestion would be to hire professional artists to build a gallery with creative photo-manipulations and paintings, and also use their feedback when building new versions.

I'm also assuming that you will ask me to take down the blog, as it may give your product a bad name, however I'm not willing to do so. I promise to take it down, or better yet - start writing positive reviews as soon as I test a new version of PSP that's not worse than the previous one.

Sincerely, ....

=======

Their second reply:

Hi Max,

It’s great to hear from you! Sorry for the delay in replying, I’ve been out of the office. I too am pleased that we’ve been able to connect and I’m also pleased that we share a similar perspective on the need for open and direct contact with the PSP community.

Over the past few months, we’ve been changing the way we manage PSP and I think these changes are for the positive. Specifically, we are getting much better focused on the community as you suggest we should be. It feels good to be doing so.

In terms of some of your suggestions, I can’t speak for specific feature enhancements at this time – that’s my colleague Craig’s department, but in terms of the way we need to engage the community, I think you are right on the money. You’ll see some action from us on some of these items this year – for example, the official forum you’ve suggested is something we’re working on enhancing right now. We have PSPP forums online today at forum.corel.com (we’re working to update these existing forums in the near term ahead of a larger overhaul/upgrade later in the year.) And in addition, we have plans in the works for a new blog and community platform. I’ll email you about those when they go live.

In terms of taking down your blog post, I have no such expectation. We really are keen to have open and honest dialogues about how we can make PSPP truly awesome and we value the feedback (even when it stings). That said, we really want to be your next post! (And hopefully positive!)Let’s keep in touch. Craig and I would be happy to jump on the phone with you at any time.

Yours sincerely, G.W.

==============================

end.

So as you can see, there's nothing concrete about any actual improvements or about getting PSP back to its clear-cut, non-bloated origins. But there ought to be plenty of that on the new forum. As soon as this new forum emerges, I urge all of you to go there and directly give them the advice that you've been keeping to yourself for so long. When and if that will ever happen, and most importantly, whether there will be genuine contact with the developers, is still uncertain, but let's keep our fingers crossed.

27 comments:

Stephen Cobb said...

Bravo! To you my fellow blogger for calling out Corel on the mess they have made of this once great product. I have used it since it was introduced as JASC shareware and I even campaigned one time to get all my buddies to pay the shareware fee. To be honest I still think it is pretty darned good BUT now bloated beyond belief (LOVE the splash screen BTW).

I found your blog while looking for why the heck a great fat program called mediacataloguer.exe was running on my machine. I can't believe that Corel leaves all this stuff running in the background, without a way of turning it off. No wonder the fan on my Sony Vaio is always running.

A small bravo as well to Corel for reaching out to you. I will be blogging my thoughts on this soon. I would love to see PSP get back to being nimble (I'd also love to see a Mac version, of the nimble version, it would kick butt with the millions of people who don't want the massive overhead of Adobe products).

Unknown said...

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

I have been using Paint Shop Pro since version 5, and how I miss the sleekness of those earlier versions. It seems that Corel has lost the essence of what PSP is all about. I continue to use PSP for original artwork simply because I hate the interface for Corel Painter. Just the other day, I conducted a seminar on PSP to a group of artists. One member of the group who uses CorelDraw could not get over how easy PSP was to use. Corel should focus on the PSP's unique strengths, and make them even better: faster response times, better art media tools, better magic wand (Adobe's is much better), etc. and avoid adding useless features (thinnify??).

Radim said...

Hello,

I read about your contact in some PSP forum so I am writing. My concern is to accept what Corel does but not how it does. So as a customer and big fan of PSP since legendary 7.04 I am using it.

Now some practical things. Version 7.04 has some unacceptable bugs therefore I am still using 9.0.1.1 on Win XP and X2.5 /X2 Ultimate/ on Win 7, but as you know it somethimes crash. So there is time for X3.01. And here my story begins... I was supprised to know that Corel add to PSPP Classic so much additional "USEFUL TOOLS". So installation takes over 1GB. No harm my HD is big, but am I using all this "ADDITIONS"? No, never. So I look as an immediate computer fan how to make it Lite. I hope you know nLite or similar tools. My concern was to remove all unnecessary stuffs I do not need/use. I came to limit around 150MB /from over 1GB/.

Here is PDF link where I described details - http://uloz.to/4447260/corel-paintshop-photo-pro-x3-lite-psppx3lite-.pdf

Radim said...

Note 1: to download PDF file from previous post enter 4 characters on image.

Note 2: My question is, as I am writing about PSP 9.0.1.1 - can somehow work this version with Aero in Win 7? I tried install but when run app it switched to classic theme /no Aero/.

Maxim Prodanov said...

Radim, what you did was very interesting and it proves that if you take away the 1+ GB of useless baggage, what you get is basically PSP9 with a few new filters. I feel sorry for the people who've spent $500 to buy every new version between PSP9 and PSP13, for basically the same program.

Radim said...

Thank you,

I have paid for PSP 7.04, 8.10, 9.01.1 and then as it worked fine on Win XP I skipped /but tried ver. X(10), XI(11) and X2/ and again paid for X2.5(Ultimate) as I go to Win 7. But X2.5 is not too much stable even on some small things it frooze... So my hope is X3. But as I am trying it it seems very, very slow... /Path 1 installed/. Switch between modes is painful. I liked the "skin" in X2.5 more then "totaly black" in X3. But what can I do.

Ortenno said...

I cannot find any site with nice and effective Tips and tricks for Corel PSPP X3 speedup...

Mark said...

I've used it since 2.x in the 90's. Unfortunately, Photoshop Elements is not a good replacement either. You have to go to full Photoshop. But its almost worth it. The PSP background monitor processes must go! I use PSP for art and retouching, it will never be a Picasa replacement.

Phil the Web said...

Just found your blog POST, and I could not agree more. In fact I found it because I was trying to Install PSP X on my Win 7 machine without success so far. It starts the Paint Shop pro X.exe process but then nothing happens it just sits there using about 7000K of memory.

Anyway, I've been using PSP since version either 3 or 4 can't remember, but I have always loved how easy and useful it was. But After X I just stopped buying it.
Bloated, useless background processes, memory and HD hogger.

It just got ridiculous, so I've kept versions 8, 9 and 10 around until something better comes around. I've tried to find some other program to replace it and yet nothing comes near to how good PSP was for its last Jasc version and the very first Corel Version.

I wish they'd streamline it back to what it was.

Anonymous said...

/improvepsp.blogspot.com/
To say I'm frustrated with PSP(9) is the understatement of the year. I recently "upgraded" from 7 to a 2nd-hand copy of 9 because that's said to be the last version worth having (some say 10). I've tried and dismissed PS, LR and all the others because they're just too expensive and/or have and appalling GUIs. Ease of use was one of PSPs great attractions.
Anyway, things were going swimingly until I found that 9 carries both the "Mesh Warp" and the "Can't save file" bugs. Also, saved print templates don't save embedded images properly. Is it worth trying to find a copy of 10?
The suggestions in this blog, especially regarding bloatedness, are welcome although I know nothing of and don't use a tablet, so that's all wasted on me. However, my complaints and suggestions are:
1. Go back to v9 or 10 and start from there: fix the bugs first before moving on.
2. Don't even contemplate catalogues or document management, except for sorting/searching on metadata fields.
3. Some people like the charcoal background, including me, so making it optional is good.
4. Enable startup in the browser a configurable option; when there is no picture in the editor the viewer should have a sidebar which shows file info and metadata.
5. The individual tool windows are great, but there is no facility to size the image to 1:1 or fit and the image doesn't resize when you switch from normal to maximized.
6. Find a way around the odd behaviour of the toolbar whereby the bar shows the current tool - as it stands you have to remember where all the hidden tools are.
Now, add features photographers and creative artists want. How many people actually make serious use most of the "art" filters, other than for a laugh? Concentrate on getting what's there working properly and be responsive to users comments - consider the benefits of open-source in terms of feedback (engage your customers). If you're going to target photographers then concentrate on doing that well - most don't need or want to create drawings from scratch. My wish list (I know some of these are in later versions but I'm certainly not going to buy a later version as it stands):
A) Built in raw support with regular updates (as Adobe does). Unlike other raw converters a nice feature would be to be able to download just the converters you need from Coral.
B) Add more correction/batch facilities for pre-processing raw files as this is all many good photographers need. Add print from raw.
C) More lens correction facilites, e.g. trapezoidal & rhomboid correction.
D) Add proper, decent screen calibration and profiles for screens and printers.
E) Better enlargement algorithms and the ability to set the PPI.
F) Use of deformation tools inside a selection
G) Improve what's already there so tools are both bug-free, more flexible in use and easier to use for novices.
H) Whatever else keep the mousewheel as a primary means of zooming - it sets PSP apart and is far, far easier than the competition.
I) Watermarking - available for both raw & processed images.
J) Uploading to user defined photo sites instead of just a few predefined ones.

Really, the list is endless and I've got to stop at some point. The main thing is, as has already been pointed out, listen to what users want and respond to their comments - even if it's a NO if you explain why then people will think much more favourably of you. As things stand with X3 you need a mainframe to run it on and there are far more unfavourable comments on the net than there are positive ones. Personally, I'd be happy to pay twice the price if the software provides what I want and you can always have light, medium and heavy versions, which works well for most software providers.

Unknown said...

Anon, I agree with all you say -- except... this comment in item 6 -- "most don't need or want to create drawings from scratch".

I'm a painter and illustrator and I really like the drawing features and the interface of the JASC versions of PSP. Problem is that Corel has not improved them one iota. As an artist, I may not represent the majority of users, but I'm certain there are many others who use the PSP drawing features directly, or to modify photos. I do also have Corel Painter X, but prefer PSP because its interface is so much better. I just wish the features weren't 10 years old.

So Corel, as you (if you) upgrade the photo features, please do not neglect the drawing features for those who like to create from scratch.

Anonymous said...

Haviden, apologies for leaving you out in the cold with my No.6! The point I was trying to make was that I think photographers can well live without the purely graphics features and no doubt the reverse is true. If Coral are aiming PSP at photographers then they should concentrate on photo features and develop Draw (or whatever it's called now) in tandem and, obviousy, a common interface would be preferable. To my mind PSP has become a Jack-of-all-trades-Master-of-none type of application, which is good for no one.
Dave

Unknown said...

I have PSPX2 .... It's has got worse as time rolls on with PSP... I had PSP 8 and it was a very stable program, but ever sense Corel got a hold of it, it's been very unstable, so instead of buying X3, I decided to buy and buckle down and learn CS4, But what is really the greatest program I have ever used in Lightroom, Damn it takes only minutes to do what need to be done to at lease improve the looks of a Raw photo.. So Bye, Bye PSP..
Tome from Truman Photography, San Diego

Anonymous said...

Having used v7 for many years and felt the need for some of the features found in more up to date software, I tried v8 and, very recently, v9. As noted in my previous post the old bugs are still present in v9.
After much effort I've found a (genuine) copy of PSP10 on Ebay - the last one left in the world, I think! I installed it last night and what a performance it turned out to be. It took 3 hours instead of 3 minutes, after it installed what is presumably the first of a long list of unwanted bloatware which were bundled with later versions. In this case it was the InstallShield updater and it took those 3 hours to research the problem, check out the other rubbish that came with v10 and end up with a clean installation. I applied the updates from the Corel site and, despite following the instructions to the letter the update to v10.01 simply would not install, throwing up a "Sorry, you haven't got a valid installation" type message. Despite being instructed to apply the three patches in sequence, the updates to v10.02 and 10.03 worked fine, so I don't know if PSP10 is missing those corrections from the 10.01 update or not.
So far I've had time only to have a brief look at v10. The GUI has changed from the old windows standard to a themed one, which I do like because it is a subtle but aesthetically pleasing improvement which hasn't gone so far as to alienate me with a full-blown XP theme(which most themed GUIs do), so top marks for that.
However...
One problem with v9 was that it wouldn't start up in the browser without some help and the best setup I ever managed was to use tabbed windows, which worked reasonably well. V10 screws up this functionally big-style. Although it starts in the browser happily enough the way the tabbing now works is just not intuitive and the whole thing is definitely more cumbersome and difficult to use than v9.
Just before I go on, let me make it clear why PSP was favoured over the likes of PS (I only went up to PS7 so I don't have any of the latest CSx versions to compare with, but I do have LR, ACDsee and various raw converters that have come with kit). PS is back to front, inside out and aimed at Mac users - we all know that there is a fundamental difference between Macs and PCs and relatively few people manage to make the transition from one to the other let alone embrace them both. PSP was designed for the PC, so it is an abhorence if it makes any attempt to court the Mac ideology. The PS interface on the PC is horrible - pokey little icons and text you can hardly see. It is has a steep learning curve and is expensive. So, those were my reasons for using PSP and I suspect I'm not alone.
PSP up to v9 suffered in various areas: no lightbox - compare two images side by side, although you could manipulate the windows - but when you did do this the colour management would not apply profiling independently to each image, as it should. This is a major deficiency and, to be honest, there aren't many programs that do do it properly. The raw converters in v9 never worked properly (I use RAF & ORF). The v9 menus mean the user has to remember where all the "hidden" tool are, but isn't a deal breaker. The colour swatches and more grads should come pre-defined rather than the user having to create them wholesale and the creation of gradients is, frankly, unusable.
I will check out these and other outstanding issues in v10 shortly but I can see now why people are divided between v9 and v10 as being the last good version. V10 introduced some pain without addressing the known problems, a situation which apparently has worsened with successive versions. So I, for one, won't be buying any more versions of PSP but I won't be splashing out on CS4, either. There is a void to be filled here and the foundations of a good program to fill it are already there in PSP9/10.
[more to follow...]

Anonymous said...

[...continued]
If G.W. from Corel is listening, perhaps he can get the promised forum up ad running sooner rather than later. I would suggest that the basis of such a forum is not based on the usual model, where people are prone to rant and often blather on about inconsequential issues, but a much more structured approach where people can actually help to develop the product constructively, with dedicated pages for specific modules which allow users to state why they want a particular feature and what they want from it and, equally, the means for Corel to respond and if needs be advise users why a feature would not be included. Essentially, this is allowing interested parties a window into the development process: not the same as open source, of course, but infinitely better than a closed shop.
I think Corel should follow the light/full-feature model, with the latter being priced midway between the current X3 and CS5 - this should give plenty of headroom to develop a really cracking piece of software that can compete with and offer a sensible alternative to CS - as long as it comes up to the mark, of course. The light version could easily be basically what is now PSP10 with the bugs fixed. It goes without saying that the bloatware has to go.
Dave
PS G.W. if you want to get in touch let the support desk know and I'll email them with a request to forward to G.W.)

Unknown said...

I've come across a British software developer that seems to have slipped under the radar, but publishes products with excellent value and capabilities: Serif.

I have recently purchased "DrawPlus" and it has ease of use and the features that demonstrate what Corel should have developed for PSP.

http://www.serif.com/drawplus/

Mind you, unlike PSP, it is a structured drawing program, but it is quite amazing. If you follow the link to the video, the demonstration of the drawing and photo capabilities is much better than I can describe.

Serif also have a dedicated photo editing program:
http://www.serif.com/photoplus/

I've not used it, but it looks pretty darn good.

The first program of theirs I purchased (for only $9.99) was PagePlus, a desktop publishing program. It has the features and ease of use that led me to DrawPlus.

What does this have to do with PSP? Well PSP does some things better and I am more familiar with it's use, so it is still my editor of choice. But how I wish Corel would develop the tools and interface to be as sexy and easy to use as the Serif products instead of tacking on junk.

Unknown said...

I've come across a British software developer that seems to have slipped under the radar, but publishes products with excellent value and capabilities: Serif.

I have recently purchased "DrawPlus" and it has ease of use and the features that demonstrate what Corel should have developed for PSP.

http://www.serif.com/drawplus/

Mind you, unlike PSP, it is a structured drawing program, but it is quite amazing. If you follow the link to the video, the demonstration of the drawing and photo capabilities is much better than I can describe.

Serif also have a dedicated photo editing program:
http://www.serif.com/photoplus/

I've not used it, but it looks pretty darn good.

The first program of theirs I purchased (for only $9.99) was PagePlus, a desktop publishing program. It has the features and ease of use that led me to DrawPlus.

What does this have to do with PSP? Well PSP does some things better and I am more familiar with it's use, so it is still my editor of choice. But how I wish Corel would develop the tools and interface to be as sexy and easy to use as the Serif products instead of tacking useless features.

Radim said...

Few things/notes, for Corel (third release of) PSPP X3 release TBYB version 13.2.0.35:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1. remove Corel Instant Viewer, what it is for? (please add checkbox during installation process... to disable it; ...I do not use it with my Digital camera)
2. needs update PDF documentation to - Corel PaintShop Photo Pro X3.pdf (...currently there is an old PDF for X2)
3. ***WILL BE NICE TO HAVE*** please enable at instalation to DISABLE others lang to copy on hardisk (...I thing that nobody use all 14 languages, ...best will be to have a choose to select ---> install only ONE selected lang, or install ALL langs)
4. in folder "..\Languages\EN\Help" is a copy of an on-line help, but HOW to ACCESS it from PaintShop Photo Pro X3? I tried open it (directly - \Languages\EN\Help\index.htm) in IE8 but I get blank page, only in Opera 10.60 I can see it...
5. last small thing ...at installation there is (I thing) one "info page" about things which are no longer possible in this TBYB release (...it is litle bit outdated)
6. QuickTime and Flash plugin ...last releases of both will be the *BEST* choice.



WHY I AM HAPPY ABOUT THIS RELEASE (13.2.0.35)
---------------------------------------------

1. finally we get PSPP Classic ONLY (~500MB), and not 1GB+ of !usefull! stufs
2. I can set (manually by editing .XML config my own install path like - "C:\Program Files\PaintShop Pro X3\PSPClassic")
3. BEST RELEASE OF ALL X3 RELEASES YET.








But, Corel >CAN DO IT< even better.

Anonymous said...

Re Haviden's note about Serif:
I used Serif extensively 10-15 years ago but didn't stick with them for two simple reasons: 1) Their products are pitched at the lower end of the pricing scale and this is reflected by the quality of features and performance. They are aimed at general purpose use, not mid- to upper end requirements and 2) MS Office came free in my work environment and did everything I needed just as well.
Don't get me wrong, many desirable features are included in Serif Draw, etc., but what is lacking is the lack of fine control and precision. I used Serif for basic DTP work and although it would churn out more than passable material much of the time it fell seriously short if I had to do complicated overlays or needed precision placement. No colour management, either.
Bearing in mind that I use PSP for photo work, not for drawing, I'm afraid I couldn't entertain Serif nowadays. It's fine for some, possible as bundled software and/or an appetiser , but definitely not for those looking for a sensible alternative to PS.
Dave
PS: It's interesting that G.W. hasn't been back yet...

Cooltouch said...

So any more news from Corel about reversing the trend? Or was it just lip service? I suspect the latter.

I've been a PSP user since v4.0, and use PSP X2 Ultimate extensively now. For the most part, I'm satisfied with it, but I really do wish PSP handled 16-bit files better. Because of its poor handling of 16-bit files, I have begun giving Photoshop a closer look. I really don't care for the PS interface, and I find that even the latest version of PS does not have some of the image editing tools that I use on a regular basis in PSP, but at least it handles 16-bit files correctly. My biggest issue with PS is its price, however. So I'm stuck. On the one hand, I have software I can afford, but it won't handle 16-bit files, and on the other I (don't) have software I can't afford, which doesn't work as well as PSP in some instances but it handles 16-bit files.

I've just d/l'd a trial copy of X3, and am annoyed. Why did Corel feel it was necessary to imitate PS's "Bridge" with the Organizer? Before, I could set it so that it would disappear when my mouse cursor moved past it. Now, it's on the screen until I click on it to exit, plus its appearance is different now -- more like PS's Bridge. I wish the Corel people would fight the urge to change aspects of the interface just for the sake of change. If it ain't broke, leave it the hell alone! And instead, concentrate on fixing things that really do need fixing -- like handling 16-bit files, for petes sake!

Radim said...

Now we have Corel PaintShop Photo Pro X3 13.2 Ultimate. Let us see what is NEW!

Radim said...

Good news!

The fifth edition of Corel PaintShop Photo Pro X3 ver. 13.2.0.41 /Ultimate edition/ seems to me *the fastest* of all X3's.

Maxim Prodanov said...

Radim, as expected, the new version's pretty much the same as X3. I will write an article on it soon.

Anonymous said...

i totally agree. PSP7 was the pinnacle for me. X3 is assware. I'm gonna get X and stick with that till I can morph over to the evil empire: Adobe.

Anonymous said...

It's interesting that the man from Corel hasn't been back here yet. After promising to take customer comments seriously you'd think a little feedback on progress would enhance customer relations (and perhaps postpone those almost inevitable decisions to migrate to the competition). Come on Coral, let's hear from you!

WanaM3 said...

Can not remember which version of PSP I started with, but this is approximately my 4th version. I always hoped that they would improve the product, but agree with all that the latest version X3 Ultimate is the absolute worst version of the program. I only wish that I had not given my old versions away. At least they didn't crash every time I try to perform a task. Not only does it crash, but it continues to grind away long after it says that it has shut down.

The other problem is that Corel listens to absolutely NO one. Typical large corporation that doesn't listen. I only wish I had the money for Adobe CS5. I guess the best solution is to try to find an old version of the program and use it.

Anonymous said...

I am more than Grateful, for you sharing! I have tried to be loyal and stick it out with PSP" as there have definitely been issues in there recent versions-
I am just now reading this, and I'm sorry I haven't read it sooner...
Not much seems to change with Corel" not much at all.
There talk is cheap! I truely wonder (when are they going to actually get it!
Js-